COLORSOUND SUPA & JUMBO WIDE BODIED TONE BENDERS

Pics, info, thoughts on old and/or hairy gear.

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Graham
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Re: COLORSOUND SUPA & JUMBO WIDE BODIED TONE BENDERS

Post by Graham »

Over many years I have - despite my own lack of technical knowledge - picked up a few things and also had extended discussions with exceptionally talented people who understand the electronic side of things practically at a quantum physics level!!

Many have commented on the relationships between all those earliest circuits and I guess at the end of the day I do know a little tech - when I talk of additional gain stages it is a consequence of a great many often very interesting discussions with designers both original and modern -

Just within the past couple of days I had an extremely educational chat with Robin at EMS (the synthesiser folks who did the hiflis amongst many others) and we hit on some of the stranger CS modulation pedals - particularly the Dipthoniser and its cousin the Vocaliser - naturally the tech was a little beyond me but I could follow when he described the "growl" function as an octave divider with a bigger range of possibilities than most -- HOWEVER what was far more interesting was what he had to tell me about the roles of various engineers both at EMS, Solasound/CS & EH - he even gave me contact info on some of these (now old) men - afer an hour or two I had to hang up but thats the kind of info I most want to find!!

When it comes to my calling the basic description of an additional transistor onto say a 2 or 3 transistor pedal as being an additional gain stage - I was merely using the language first explained to me by Gary Hurst who i think ought to know a little about these matters :ugeek: but many others have also said the same - It is the same as my calling these stages "pre-amps" in past posts where I was also "helped out" - that was meant to illuminate things for those with very little technical understanding and was precisely how my "betters" had explained such matters to me (and I consider myself one of the ones with little understanding) - Like I said - once upon a time, there were many more discussive postings on my threads - when or why whatever happened to them, well I never really found out - Although the "who" - I pretty well did find out as very few have access to others threads - If I seemed a bit impatient it is because it is such an old chestnut - folks picking me up on my generalisations - that occasionally I get a little tired of it -- It would not be right to point to who has often "helped" me with my lack of knowledge historically though its normally the same folks - some could be forgiven as English is not their first language but others have often just seemed to be after either making a point or picking a fight - I am uninterested in either - I made the decision to begin posting here again as I had thought the sillier stuff was over - still my hope - though I have other options if it came to it.

I am not picking on you mr laundromat - and would never want to come across as argumentative - I shouldn't think many have ever seen me bothering to comment like this - and I'd much prefer being considered old fashioned maybe or even - heaven forbid - polite!! - but if I put some info up here it is aimed to help all levels of readers as will my eventual book (provided I have the health to finish and even then arrangements are in place should I hit problems!!)- I am hoping that some skilled engineers will contribute a brief technical description for those who would enjoy such - I MAY even put in schematics who knows - the jury is out on that one right now though it never seems to take long for schematics of my stuff to be loaded onto the web once I open anything unusual up :coffee: But the book is going to happen - as I have always said it will have the big advantage of having as many of the actual pedals as possible as well as a broad cross section of people - some famous others less so - commenting whatever is entertaining or useful to each pedal..

I didn't just start this process off - it has been going for years now - I did though decide to begin getting more active here again after a pretty lengthy lay off because many folks I count as good friends had asked or encouraged me to - instead of using my own web of websites (is that an appropriate collective noun ?? "a web of websites") At the last count I have 8 of them but only 3 or 4 currently hosted and apart from to a few helpers none are "open" yet...

Anyway - I'll do my best to be careful with my laymans terminology in future -- one reason I mentioned rarely going to the tinkerers pages ) those little tinks!! and NEVER stray onto the hallowed ground of the DIY or FREE Stompbox brigade (though my pics have a tendency to find their own way regardless
:hmm:

Anyway - onwards and upwards eh !!!

Wanted to load a few wow fuzz group pics before hitting the hay!!


Peace & cool runnings - Graham :mrgreen:
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Laundromat
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Re: COLORSOUND SUPA & JUMBO WIDE BODIED TONE BENDERS

Post by Laundromat »

I never meant to upset you, or appear anything less than polite. :cheers:
I have the utmost respect for your research and it has been a great joy and help to me for several years, all the way back to the old ship.

I just felt the need to point out a bit that might cause confusion, especially among the less technically inclined of us. The circuit topology differs noticeably from the earlier units and seems to have been designed "from the ground up" rather than having evolved from one of the previous versions.
Condolences, the bums lost!
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The Captain
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Re: COLORSOUND SUPA & JUMBO WIDE BODIED TONE BENDERS

Post by The Captain »

Hey thanks so much for the date info, man. Most appreciated.
Graham wrote:9/ Black Jumbo (sticker type) Black & Gold logo on black body - EX DAVE MAIN
Ha! Right on! I thought so. Bloody great pedal that one! I'm sure that bad ass colour scheme adds something extra to the tone :hihi:
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Kitrae
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Post by Kitrae »

Graham, did you shoot any pix of the Jumbo guts? I am wondering which are the 3 transistor and which are the 4 transistor versions. Beautiful collection by the way.

The circuits were all based on the Big Muff and have no relationship to the previous Tonebenders. I guess around '73 Sola figured they should get on board with some type of Big Muff since eothers were already knocking it off. The 3 transistor version was a simplified Big Muff circuit. Diodes removed in the first gain stage, and they simply eliminated the last gain recovery stage. At some point they must have decided to make it closer to the Big Muff sound, so they added that last stage back in for the four transistor version.
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Electric Warrior
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Post by Electric Warrior »

The Jumbos have the 3 transistor circuit while the Supas have the 4 transistor one.
The Supa wasn't the successor of the the Jumbo however. As you can see from Graham's collection, they were in production concurrently.
Graham's orange Supa is dated May '73 and the factory schematic of the Jumbo is dated Dec '73, so it even seems as if the Supa was introduced before they came up with the Jumbo.
Everything is transitional.
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Kitrae
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Post by Kitrae »

There were actually three and four transistor versions of both the Supa and Jumbo. I have pix and schematics that people have traced of both, but not all show the outside enclosures. They various circuit versions were the same insides, just the graphics on the outside changed. The Supa likely came out in '73 and the enclosure marked Jumbo came out in '74. Seems the 4 transistor Jumbo versions was from 77 or so, but that is what I want to determine, because all of the Supa's pictured here are 4 tranys, but no 3 trany pix, and no Jumbo gut shots. I have written about them here.
http://www.kitrae.net/music/History_of_ ... lones.html

What I am wondering is which of the Jumbos pictured have the 3 and which have the four transistor guts, if any. There is a definite chronology of graphics and eclosure (footswitch position) changes, I just don't have good info about which guts are in which Jumbo enclosures.
Last edited by Kitrae on Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Electric Warrior
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Post by Electric Warrior »

All of G's Jumbos have three transistors. Check his list on page 1.
The 4 transistor version started in '73, maybe even earlier.
Everything is transitional.
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Kitrae
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Post by Kitrae »

There is no list, he just states "Within a year or two some bright spark came up with the idea of knocking out a three silicon tranny version - confusingly calling it the JUMBO!!! ". No mention of what is in his Jumbos, which is why I asked the question. Maybe G will chime in.

I have pix of a 4 trany Jumbo that was sent to me a few years back, and a schemo of a 4 trany, so Sola must have done a few with the Supa guts. Or the photo is not a real Jumbo. The guy never sent outside pix.
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Electric Warrior
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Re: COLORSOUND SUPA & JUMBO WIDE BODIED TONE BENDERS

Post by Electric Warrior »

Graham wrote: Image

OK so those are in date order - to the best of my understanding that is - there are 9 pedals and below are outline details on each from left to right - Earliest to Latest (that I own)..

NB - the pedals with date stamps make an interesting demonstration when looking at pot codes of my view that GENERALLY you can say that the pot build date and pedal build date are normallly within 4 months or so.

1/ Orange Supa - Date stamp in ink - 16 MAY 1973 Pots D_2 (last qtr '72) one a later replacement from '93 -- 4 x 349B transistors - Battery hatch present. Low switch position

2/ Silver Supa with "unfilled" pink logo Date Stamp 13 AUG 1975 - pot codes 6_5 (Jun 75) - 4 BC109C trannies "M" lettered on case Low switch position

3/ Silver Jumbo Blue & White logo - no date stamp but all pots N_5 (late '75) SO LATE 75/BEGINNING 76 build - 3 ZTX 109C trannies - changed switch - high position

4/ Silver Jumbo Turquoise & White logo - Date stamp 27 SEPT 1976 - pot codes 7_6 (Jul 76) - 3 unmarked black trannies - unusual green acrylic "block" caps - high position switch

5/ Silver Supa with "filled" pink logo Date stamp 27 OCT 1976 - pot codes all 8_6 (Aug 76) - 4 BC184C trannies - replaced switch - low position - "M" lettered

6/ Chrome Jumbo (new "sticker" shape) No date stamp - 2 pots coded 1_7 (Jan '77) 1 pot D_6 (last qtr '76) I would say pedal built Spring '77 - 3 ZTX 383C trannies - SOLA stamp on base - Batt Hatch present. switch in higher position

7/ Chrome Supa (sticker type) Pink on white logo now at 90 degrees no longer curved - switch in higher position - Date Stamp 26 JUL 1978 - all pot codes 1_8 (Jan '78 so slightly unusual in being a 6 month gap) - 4 BC 184C trannies - Battery hatch present

8/ Silver Jumbo (sticker type) Orange & white logo on brown background - N.O.S condition (had box papers and even the small cardboard tube in plave over switch to prevent it punching through box!!) YUMMY!!!! :badlove: amongst my cleanest 3 Brit pedals! I paid TOO much for this one !! :shocked2: No date stamp in case but pot codes 2 x N_8 & 1 x 1_8 HARD TO DATE AS POTS UNUSUALLY SPACED AGE WISE (assuming N_8 is late 78 and knowing that 1_8 is Jan 78) Attribute to Late '78 / early '79 build - switch in higher position with black plastic dust cap still present (NOT always used but when they are, caps are often missing on these later CS or Sola built 3rd party peds) - 3 BC 184 C trannies - Battery Hatch - external 9v supply socket.

9/ Black Jumbo (sticker type) Black & Gold logo on black body - EX DAVE MAIN - no date code but pots all 5_0 so May 1980 (cannot be 1970!!! so this is the latest example of any wide CS fuzz I have or have seen) Allowing 2-4 month date code "gap" would put pedal build at around Summer/early Autumn 1980. 3 x BC184C trannies - Battery hatch present - external 9v socket present.
Kitrae wrote:There is no list, he just states "Within a year or two some bright spark came up with the idea of knocking out a three silicon tranny version - confusingly calling it the JUMBO!!! ". No mention of what is in his Jumbos, which is why I asked the question. Maybe G will chime in.

I have pix of a 4 trany Jumbo that was sent to me a few years back, and a schemo of a 4 trany, so Sola must have done a few with the Supa guts. Or the photo is not a real Jumbo. The guy never sent outside pix.
People do keep confusing them. If you ever come across any oddities make sure to have them documented in pictures.
And never trust other people's schematics (anybody found a Vox Suppa Tone Bender yet? :badteeth: ).

I sure can imagine some pedals would have ended up with the wrong guts, though. It's Colorsound after all. Anything is possible. But I think it's pretty save to say the Jumbos were meant to have 3 transistors while the Supas were meant to have 4.
Everything is transitional.
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Kitrae
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Post by Kitrae »

Electric Warrior wrote: People keep confusing them. If you ever come across any oddities make sure to have them documented in pictures.
Thanks. That's why I asked for gut shots. There are 3 trany Jumbos with different layouts to the Supa 3 trany pcb I have seen. I assume this is what is in the ones pictured above.
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f36/70s-c ... ip-339749/

And a few more.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/leoncook/3 ... otostream/
http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/vie ... 7&start=30
Last edited by Kitrae on Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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