The Ryan Adams allegations are the tip of an indie-music iceberg

[Philip]

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/ ... ic-iceberg

[Doc Holliday]

Although I’ve heard his name being thrown around in the past I know nothing about this guy. His music , lifestyle .. nothing.
I do feel sick that people will go to such lengths to control though.
I saw a statement of his implying he’s not perfect and never intended to hurt anybody but... emotional blackmail, threatening suicide and cutting of his ex’s money until he got his own way sounds like that was exactly what he was doing.

[Fuzzisthebest]

There’s a lot going on here and it’s all very sad for those that have been abused .

I saw Adams live once in 2016 and twice in 2017 .I’ll never go to see him live again
The truth always comes out in the end .

[Philip]

I didn't read it cos of Adams, I know nowt about him or his music, but more the general issue.

Misogyny and homophobia are still very much a thing in 2019 even in the supposedly more enlightened world of indie music. Rare to see people posting pics of men in music forums like we see many doing of women. Then there's that whole thing of "she's great for a girl" and comments about women's looks etc when clips are posted.

I found the point about the tortured male artist thing interesting. So many are given a pass for awful shit through that pov.

Humans are weird.

[HorseyBoy]

Ryan Adams has been around for a long time. He's made lots of records, first with Whiskeytown, then on his own. Some of those records are pretty ordinary, but some of them are excellent. "Heartbreaker", his first solo album, is a great record. The last Whiskeytown album, "Pneumonia", is also excellent. The dude has talent. He may also be an absolute arsehole and, assuming these latest allegations are true (and there's no reason to believe they aren't), not above using power and position to cause a lot of women a lot of hurt.
But that doesn't mean all the music he's ever made is suddenly tainted. The artist is not the art, and it's dangerous to judge the quality of art based on the qualities of the artist. Once the art has been made, it should stand on its own.
Fact is, nice people generally don't make good art. Go back to your favourite books, your favourite movies and your favourite records. Is "Chinatown" a bad movie because Roman Polanski was a paedophile rapist? Should it never be seen again? Of course not - it's a great movie. Jimmy Page had a long-term relationship with a 14-year-old girl. Ike Turner was a wife-beating drug addict and James Brown was an absolute cunt. Do I approve of their behaviour? No. Do I love their music? Yeah, I do.

[jagermonster]

Ryan Adams has been around for a long time. He's made lots of records, first with Whiskeytown, then on his own. Some of those records are pretty ordinary, but some of them are excellent. "Heartbreaker", his first solo album, is a great record. The last Whiskeytown album, "Pneumonia", is also excellent. The dude has talent. He may also be an absolute arsehole and, assuming these latest allegations are true (and there's no reason to believe they aren't), not above using power and position to cause a lot of women a lot of hurt.
But that doesn't mean all the music he's ever made is suddenly tainted. The artist is not the art, and it's dangerous to judge the quality of art based on the qualities of the artist. Once the art has been made, it should stand on its own.
Fact is, nice people generally don't make good art. Go back to your favourite books, your favourite movies and your favourite records. Is "Chinatown" a bad movie because Roman Polanski was a paedophile rapist? Should it never be seen again? Of course not - it's a great movie. Jimmy Page had a long-term relationship with a 14-year-old girl. Ike Turner was a wife-beating drug addict and James Brown was an absolute cunt. Do I approve of their behaviour? No. Do I love their music? Yeah, I do.

Been struggling with this stuff for a while now.

Agree with most of the above, but still working on finding my personal threshhold for bullshit tolerance. Recently got rid of all my Burzum, Mayhem, Emperor, Watain, Inquisition, Arghoslent, etc records. Love a lot of that music but I just can't stand the idea of ingesting art made by human garbage anymore. I guess once the artists' conduct crossed that [arbitrary] threshhold, the knowledge of who is behind the art interferes too much with simply enjoying it.

That said, my Johnny Paycheck, James Brown, and Ike Turner records aren't going anywhere, ever.

[2guests]

I guess once the artists' conduct crossed that [arbitrary] threshhold, the knowledge of who is behind the art interferes too much with simply enjoying it.

That said, my Johnny Paycheck, James Brown, and Ike Turner records aren't going anywhere, ever.

The older I get the less forgiving I am of artists talking shit about current events. Current events that they have mis-represented compared to my reasoning. And if artists are abusive of other men, women, or children is not tolerated. I will not support that behavior with my money or attention. The older artists I listened to, before I realized what was going on, and made up my mind, well, they totally get a pass...mostly because they have died or aren't talking shit...plus , their music was sooo much better!!!

[burgersalad14]

He has made nothing good after Cold Roses and he honestly shoulda stayed a strung out junkie. Never one to adhere to the modern Orwellian norms of witch-hunt, but he has been a whiny overrated pussy for the longest time and I’m glad that I won’t have to deal with prententious photos of pinball machines or cats or a fucking denim jacket with 15 Misfit patches on it.

[2guests]

...fucking denim jacket with 15 Misfit patches on it.

I don't understand why you would need "15 Misfit patches on it" when only one big image on the back of your denim jacket will do!!!!

[Idle South]

Humans are weird.

This